Image originally created by DanaThere's an old saying in media about getting an interview: if at first
you don't succeed, auction their book
at a charity event and then ask again. (Thanks for the advice, George Wayne!) Presented below is an unedited email Q&A with
Keith Gessen, author of
All the Sad Young Literary Men and editor-in-chief of
n+1. He's reading tonight with
Charles Bock (previously interviewed by
YM's Foster Kamer for Radar) at the
Bowery Poetry Club.
We had planned to attend with groggers (noisemakers, you goys) and rattle, boo and hiss whenever Keith uttered "Harvard" - this is an absolutely hilarious gag that riffs on
Purim spiels where audience members do the same at the mention of the evil Haman - but given we "made fools of [o]urselves" in a video that clearly didn't appreciate "satire," we've decided to leave it at this group interview effort. Thanks to
99,
Eli Valley,
Karion and
Katie Bakes.
99: We heard you were thinking of a semi-permanent return to Russia, perhaps for personal reasons. Can you give any details about this? And given the current conflict with Russia, would you see making such a decision as one of greater or lesser symbolic import (not to presume any great responsibility on your part)?True, sort of. I'm going to Moscow for the academic year to keep an eye on my grandmother while my sister, who usually lives in Moscow, does a fellowship in the States. Symbolically, uh, I wish I were doing it at a time when Russia was not in the process of "reestablishing its sphere of influence" and also it would be nice if the dollar was stronger.
AK: For the benefit of Jakob Lodwick and people like him, could you explain the political situation between Russia and Georgia in three sentences?We need to decrease our dependence on oil and gas. Seriously. Right away or we're fucked and it will be the Russians who fuck us and we won't like that at all.
99: How would you characterize Solzhenitsyn's later support of Putin in the broader context of his writing and life -- and do you see any relevance to this question in the current climate (also, do you see any parallels with Grass -- well regarded political writer who stumbles in the eye's of his most ardent supporters late in life)?That's a good question. It's not like Grass admitting to having been a youthful Nazi in the sense that actually Solzh was always like this, and he never concealed it, and in the emigre community his Russian chauvinism, his religiosity, his--well, not anti-Semitism, certainly not on a personal level, but a set of beliefs that were congruent with age-old Russian anti-Semitism--all this has been on the table for almost as long as Solzh has existed as a figure. The old emigre magazines are filled with discussions of "The Solzhenitsyn Problem." In fact you could definitely argue that if he weren't this way, he'd never have become Solzhenitsyn to begin with--his initial publication, the work that made him famous, was One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich in the literary magazine Novy Mir in 1962, and it was lobbied for by Alexander Tvardovsky, the editor of Novy Mir, who was a real muzhik, and it was approved finally by Khrushchev, another muzhik. Muzhik means peasant but it also means man. Solzhenitsyn was a math teacher but his patrons were a certain kind of dude--and one suspects that if, say, a Jew had written One Day in the Life, they would have told him to put it away for a hundred years--which is in fact exactly what they said to Vasily Grossman when he showed them Life and Fate, which had material on the camps, and the war, and the KGB, and so on.
That said, the fact that Solzh lived long enough to find himself in a position where he endorsed Putin is amazing--it's the rare case where someone has to follow through, I guess you could say, on the inherent contradictions of their beliefs. It's not that he confessed to some hidden old crime, like Grass; or that he went senile and betrayed himself, which is sort of what it looked like. In fact what happened is the country reached a point where Solzh's two great passions--his desire for a powerful Russia and his hatred of the KGB--came into direct conflict. And he chose Russia. I wish he hadn't, but he did.
Eli Valley would actually like to ask what you think of his comics - http://evcomics.com - but instead, he submits: Should Israel resign itself to the inevitability of a nuclear Iran and an era of mutual assured destruction in the region, or is the suspected irrationality of Iran's leaders, not to mention the possibility of nukes falling into the hands of Hezbollah, too great a risk for Israel to live with?I just looked at Eli's comics and I like them! I like "The Incredible Hulk" and "The Obama Menace Dress Up Doll." Did he do the Obama New Yorker cover?
In terms of nukes, everyone should have them. How do you think the Iranians feel with Netanyahu always a few votes away from the button? Either everyone or no one. Much better no one. Otherwise everyone.
AK: Keith Gessen the Tumblr is consistently erudite, funny and clever, as was the person behind it that I met. Oddly, I found these characteristics to be lacking from his book, All the Sad Young Literary Men. Perhaps my ADD-addled brain can now only appreciate short-form delivery but do you think there are other explanations for the sliver of the reading public (more than just me I assume) that enjoys your online work but not the book?Thank you, Andrew, for saying that about my Tumblr. I can offer two explanations:
1. You didn't read my book. Right? There are parts of my book--the first-person parts--that are told pretty straight, but the rest of the book, which is most of the book, is satire. It's got the same exact jokes as the Tumblr, in fact I'm pretty sure I'm plagiarizing jokes from the book all the time. Now, that's not an actual claim for the funniness of the book. Some people don't find my Tumblr very funny at all--see half the comments I get. But it's the same person and the same jokes. I'm not exactly sure where the idea of it being a "serious literary" book came from--from Gawker? From things I said to the Times? I don't know. And I do have serious intentions with the book, don't get me wrong. But the *form* of the book is primarily satirical. So for example that video you guys made, where you read from my book in funny voices? Boy, that was dumb. Because you can say that a satire is unfunny or bad, but you can't say it's not a satire, which is in effect what you guys were saying, which is why you made fools of yourselves, no offense.
2. It's possible that if the Viking publicity department went to work on behalf of my Tumblr and you read articles in various respectable venues saying it was the greatest Tumblr in history, and then you went and read it, you'd probably hate the Tumblr, too. And I suppose at some level it would be my fault for promoting my Tumblr, and going on tour with my Tumblr, and giving interviews about my Tumblr, but it would still be the same Tumblr, if you see what I'm saying.
AK: Something I found frustrating in the Jessica Roy Affair was the errant substitution of New York's media and literary scenes as if the two were the same. With a knee deeper in the latter, you have straddled both; so I ask, which side has bigger assholes?Well, there were a great many errant substitutions in that thing she wrote--for example she said that I have messy hair. But I've since gotten a haircut. Do I still have messy hair? Hm? If you're saying that she's confused about who has power vs. who does not have power, that's true. It's important to keep in mind that this is a person--there are a fair number of people like this--who got much of her information on the world of New York media/publishing/etc. from Gawker. Gawker sort of frames the thing she wrote. And that's really something to think about.
That said, there's a proud tradition of treating literature and publishing as a conspiracy. The most notable contribution to this in recent intellectual history is Richard Kostelantetz's The End of Intelligent Writing (1973). That book actually has like charts of influence, who edits which magazines, who knows who. A more recent contribution was Gary Baum's FoE! Log (2000-2001), an online masterpiece of conspiracy theorizing. The thing is, looking at literature as a conspiracy will answer a lot of questions and clear up a lot of things. What it won't ever be able to clear up is why one book is better than another.
Karion, proxy for Gawker commenters: What was the point of responding to blog posts and criticism online? Was it merely to entice the more passive viewers of the shitstorm to buy the book or was it just pure ego? (AK: I would phrase it, do you plead guilty to being bitten by the Gawker fameball bug?)I'll answer this honestly and you can take it or leave it. First off, I think we all know that Gawker readers *do not buy books*--or, rather, if they do buy books, they do it in a way that is totally independent of Gawker. I mean, you need look no further than the sales of the Gawker media book, right? But also for example we've been able to track this stuff very closely with n+1, which is a small project so we can tell what works and what doesn't (mostly what doesn't). Remember that long post Emily wrote in which she quit? And in which she praised the piece on Gawker by Carla Blumenkranz and also Wesley Yang's piece on Virginia Tech in issue 6? And because everyone loves Emily--including, incidentally, for the record, me--it got a ton of views, that post? Do you want to know what effect that had on the sales of issue 6 of n+1? None, zero, zip.
So, in short, I wasn't trying to sell books. When I had my big "marketing" meeting with my publisher way back when, months before my book came out, they asked me to start a blog and I said no. But here I am.
It *was* driven by my ego, though I'm not sure in quite the way you mean. I mean, look, by the time I started my Tumblr, which was in early June, my book had been reviewed in a *lot* of places--and it was really up and down. In fact I don't think I ever got two good reviews or two bad reviews in a row--it went good bad good bad and on and on. I got mad at the bad reviews and even at some of the good ones, but that was just part of the process. I actually started a private Tumblr when the first reviews started coming in which I kind of analyzed them one by one, and it was therapeutic--it had one reader, in addition to me, and I made sure no one ever found it. I don't think it's wrong for writers to respond to their critics, but it wasn't something I felt like doing in public.
The Gawker/Observer stuff felt different. I'd like to say it was an utter fabrication, but that's not quite right; it took some true facts and totally misconstrued them. I thought. Like, look at Andrew up above, asking me why my book's not funny. Look at the question below, about the "serious Gessen brand." ONLY a Gawker reader would ask those questions; ONLY someone who hasn't read the book, in fact has read very very little or possibly nothing I've written, would ask that. So it was this weird alternate Keith that was getting spun out. I know you're supposed to just "accept" it, but I didn't feel like accepting it.
And, I think I've said this before but it bears repeating, the book I wrote, and the work I do in general, it's meant for a large audience. This doesn't mean it's achieving that goal, or that I'm going about it the right way--but that's the idea. In terms of the book, I know the kind of superficial characteristics of the guys in there are highly specific and even sort of recondite--there's a guy who spends all his time thinking about the Mensheviks, I mean really he thinks about them a lot, and obviously this is not a recipe for a best-selling work of fiction--but at the same time I thought the situations the guys were in, the relationships, the conversations within those relationships, the strange new power dynamics, were things that everyone our age would recognize--and they were things I had not seen depicted in fiction. Again, I don't know if any of this worked, but that was the idea. Which is why I've been so puzzled and annoyed by some of the Harvard stuff that's come up, as if the book brags about Harvard all the time. All the book does is say, Here's where I'm coming from. Here is my experience. It's a very specific experience and I am not going to hide the specificity of that experience--but I think if I tell you about my experience, granted mostly in a satirical form, you'll recognize your own experience in it too.
I still think that.
And so given all that, given that my target audience was *everyone under 40*, when a site like Gawker--which, let's not exaggerate the size of Gawker, those 16 million pageviews are largely generated by about 100 people clicking on the comments over and over and over again--but still, when a large enough group of people says over and over, with a bit of justification but also with huge great leaps in logic, "You're an asshole," I just felt eventually like it was worth responding. Because I know exactly what kind of asshole I am, and it's a different kind of asshole from the one depicted on Gawker, etc.
I admit it hasn't worked very well, though this interview is fun.
Katie Bakes: Why didn't you mention me on your list of Distinguished Commenters?Did Katie really ask this?
[Ed. Yes, she did.] Katie it was an oversight. My bad. I was trying so hard to make it alphabetical... mistakes were made.
AK: On that note, do you ever regret your foray into blogging? Has the experience cheapened the once-serious Keith Gessen brand or have you bolstered the medium's legitimacy? In other words, what would have Fitzgerald done?I regret it all the time! But, you know, I've learned a lot. A reasonable person would have made certain reasonable assumptions about the sorts of people who anonymously disparage other people in the comments sections of blogs; I'm not a reasonable person and I had to see for myself. Now I've seen for myself. In terms of the internet, I'm certain I haven't bolstered the internet's legitimacy, and the internet doesn't need me to--we're all in it, man. The internet will never die. As for the Gessen brand, I'm sure if anyone ever thought I was a paragon of virtue, humility, or sanity, they no longer think that. But then those people didn't know me very well.